Q-and-A: Gov. Gretchen Whitmer's candid conversation with USA TODAY

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer has written a new book, "True Gretch: What I've Learned About Life, Leadership, and Everything In Between," released Tuesday by Simon and Schuster.

Less than two weeks before the publication date, Democratic politics were upended by President Joe Biden's faltering performance at his debate with Republican challenger Donald Trump. As a Democratic governor from a swing state and a prospective presidential contender, she found herself in the middle of the firestorm.

Which seemed like a good opportunity to apply her lessons about leadership.

Here's our conversation, lightly edited for length and clarity.

Question: I think the biggest revelation in your book has to be the shark tattoo. Where is it?

Whitmer: It's on my right shoulder....

So when I was running for governor the first time, [the political action committee] Emily's List sent a debate coach out to work with me, and I loved the opportunity to learn from the best of the best. But one of the things that he made sure that I took away was that the happy warrior wins every debate. Whoever looks like they're having the most fun is the one who's going to win the debate.

So the piece of advice was as soon as you get to your lectern, write a smiley face at the top of your notes to remind you to smile and have fun. And I'm like ? any woman who's ever been told to smile knows that it has the opposite effect. I'm like ? I'm not putting up a smiley face. It irritates me. So I'd been to a Kevin Hart comedy show, and a guy who was opening for him was talking about how women are so much more secure in who they are and so much more forceful.

And that used to be when a woman was having her period and you wanted to come over and see her, she'd be very demure about it. "Oh, Aunt Flo is in town," or whatever, and how today you have this similar conversation with a woman and she says, "You're not coming over because this is Shark Week, m-----f-----." And I thought that was the funniest thing I'd ever heard. And so to be a happy warrior, I kept that story in mind and I put "SW MF" on the top of my notes, and that kept me laughing.

And it was, I think, just kind of one of those things that, OK, remember, stay loose, be who you are, show up as you are. And put[ting] the shark on my shoulder felt like just a little extra support.

Q: Four years ago, you were about to give a virtual speech to the Democratic National Convention. You said the phrase "it's Shark Week" and you mouthed the word that follows, and it went viral.

Whitmer: I worked so hard on that speech and I thought I delivered it pretty well and I was proud of it. And then for that to be the thing that came out, I was just like, oh God, what did I do? But it turned into another moment that people kind of gravitated to and started wearing T-shirts that say 'Shark Week m*****f*****' on it. And then the head of Discovery Channel actually sent me a Shark Week care package, which was lovely.

Q: Here's your political lesson: "Own your screw ups." You didn't pretend it didn't happen and you didn't denounce whoever leaked it. You embraced it.

Whitmer: Yeah, we just leaned into it. It was funny. It was a screw up, but it was funny and it wasn't derogatory to anyone. I didn't get cut on a hot mic saying something awful about somebody. I got caught mouthing some foul language, but telling a joke, and I think that was it. You own it. You own it. Don't run away. Don't try to pretend it wasn't what it was, just own it.

More: Gretchen Whitmer on shark tattoos, domestic terrorism and the Democrats' dilemma

Q: Now Democrats are in a much hotter spot when it comes to the debate that's going on about whether President Biden's going to be renominated. Apply that lesson to him.

Whitmer: I think he has done it, and I think others have as well, to say it was not the greatest debate performance, let's not pretend otherwise. Let's not make excuses. Let's just say it wasn't. But a 90-minute snapshot of a person with high integrity who's served his country for decades ? no one's as good as their best 90 minutes or as bad as their worst 90 minutes. You should be judged by the service and what you've been able to get accomplished, and he's showing up with the receipts. So I think that that's part of it. And I think also don't get distracted by the noise. Just keep doing the next thing that needs to get done.

Q: Do you think this is noise or more than that?

Whitmer: I think that there's a lot of noise out there. I don't think that critiquing the debate performance is noise, but I do think that there's a lot of noise, a lot of side conversations that have nothing to do with what we're really looking at in front of us could create divisions where that's unnecessary or to, I think, put energy into things that frankly aren't going to impact who we have in front of us in terms of this upcoming election,

Q: You've said this: "One the things I know is you can't tell people how to feel and you can't tell people to ignore something they are questioning." Talk to me about the issue of Biden's age and mental acuity and how you view it.

Whitmer: Well, as I said, I think that this is a 90-minute snapshot of someone who has been back and forth to Europe twice in one week. That's a brutal calendar for a 52-year-old. [Whitmer is 52.] And so I think about all the extraordinary things that people see, but don't actually pause and say, wow, he actually keeps up this really aggressive calendar and he's showing up, and certainly there's that debate performance, and then there'll be millions others where he'll demonstrate the vigor and the capacity. So I think that now is not the time to just, I think, throw it all out because of one 90-minute debate.

Whitmer: What are you hearing from Michiganders about it?

Whitmer: I think the average person is just trying to get through their day. I don't believe that it's the subject in the grocery-store aisles, right? It's the cost of things or how do we make sure that our kids can get the skills that get them into a good paying job? How can we afford it? These are the things I think that are occupying Michiganders and probably most Americans minds at the moment. And when the president acknowledges, "Hey, one person's not going to solve global inflation, but here's what we've done to put more money in your pocket," that's powerful. And that's talking to people in terms of where they're living right now,

Q: You reportedly called Biden campaign chair Jen O'Malley Dillon 24 hours after the debate. Why did you call her?

Whitmer: She called me, actually. And the White House I think had, well, I should say the Biden campaign I think had a lot of high-level people reaching out to leaders across the country, and so I think it was just a routine call of the same nature that many of my colleagues fielded as well. So I don't see it as anything other than that.

I know it's been kind of couched in this other thing, [that] I was calling and I said some things. None of that's accurate. Jen had reached out to me to touch base after the debate, and the nature of our conversation was me for a thousandth time reiterating Michigan's just tough terrain. It is. I've said it a million times. I'm going to say it a million more times between now and the election.

Q: What does Biden need to do to carry Michigan?

Whitmer: I know he's working really hard to try to get the [Israeli] hostages returned and the cessation of violence in Gaza. I'm hopeful that he's able to impact what's happening there because there's a lot of people in pain here in Michigan, both from the Palestinian or Muslim or Arab perspective, but also from the Jewish perspective. And so everyone's in pain, is what I can say, and if we could resolve this somehow, it would be immensely helpful. Obviously, he does not unilaterally control that, but I know he and the secretary of State are working incredibly hard to get that done.

But I think it's showing up. We've got the ground game here. I'm proud of what we've been able to accomplish over the last six years. I feel determined to make sure that we've run through the tape Nov. 5th, and so we're doing a lot of work on the ground here, and I think that's going to be crucial.

Q: In the call, did you disavow the "Draft Gretchen Whitmer" movement?

Whitmer: I may have made some remark about all these distractions. We can't get distracted, so I wouldn't be surprised if I said that, but I don't recall it specifically.

Q: How does it make you feel when people keep putting your name up as a replacement for Biden?

Whitmer: Well, uncomfortable. I'm a co-chair of the Biden-Harris campaign. I'm working my tail off to make sure that we're successful. I've done travel, I've done a ton of work here in Michigan, and we're going to do that. So I feel like it actually undermines the work that I'm putting in on behalf of the administration. So I don't like seeing it because I don't want to talk about that stuff. I want to focus on what we need to do the next four-and-a-half months and do it as well as we possibly can because that's what it's going to take.

Q: What do you need to do in the next four-and-a-half months?

Whitmer: I think it's continuing to build out our 83-county strategy. That's what I did two years ago [in her reelection race]. It is part of why we had such great success here, winning by almost 11 points, but also flipping the House and the Senate by one seat in each chamber. So it's precarious, but it can be done. We've shown the world it can be done, but we've got a lot to do in a short period of time when there are so many issues that are dividing us.

Q: Another lesson from your book: "Run toward the fire. When you see a fire, you have three choices. You can run away, stand there watching it or run toward it." I think a lot of Americans feel like the country is on fire right now. Do you?

Whitmer: It does. Everything's hot, right? The rhetoric's hot, the anger, the stakes are, feel really high and personal to so many of us. And the best thing we can do is not just watch it all burn to the ground, but to work together and try to put out the fire. So yeah, I do think that when I see a problem, I'm inclined to roll up my sleeves and get to work. It's part of why I ran for office in the first place. I've never viewed myself as this office or this office. I look at a problem and I say, who's going to solve it? And there's not someone in it, then I want to jump in and be a part of the solution.

Q: As a top governor, as a national co-chair of the Biden campaign, as a leading voice in the Democratic Party, what is your role at this moment in the debate over the nomination?

Whitmer: Well, I think that there's a lot of conversation happening within the campaign about things that need to be done to ensure that the president's got the support he needs to do what he needs to do. And the co-chairs don't design debate prep. We don't design. I think we're sounding boards more than anything, and so continuing to do that. But I think there's a lot of assessment that's happening right now, I would assume.

Q: Do you think it would be good for the nation if the president decided not to run for a second term?

Whitmer: You know what? I'm not going to entertain any conversation along that line. The president is in this race, he is running, and he's got my unequivocal support.

Q: Do you believe that a second Trump term would imperil our democracy?

Whitmer: I am very concerned about what a second Trump term might look like just based on the things that he himself has said about what he would do with that kind of power. And so I have great concern about that. Yeah.

Q: Does that affect this conversation about the Democratic ticket? Does that raise the stakes for the conversation Democrats are having now?

Whitmer: I think so, yeah.

Q: You have had such a personal experience with domestic terrorism. Militiamen were arrested and convicted of trying to kidnap and kill you. How did it change you?

Whitmer: I am as comfortable in a black church as I am a bowling alley. Generally. I'm more comfortable there than a black-tie dinner, to be honest. I love people. That's why I do this. That's why I got into all 83 counties, even the reddest of counties. I don't write anyone off, and I want to show up, and I want to have genuine conversations and understand people and see what I can do to make their lives better.

And yet, in the wake of this where you realize there are these strangers in my own state who are doing exercises to figure out how to take me and put me on a sham trial and then execute me, it does change your perspective. I don't walk into any grouping of people without really being aware of where my [security] detail is, looking at the crowd to see is there anything or anyone that I should take note of or where the exits are. And so that has changed me. And I think it's sad because I am more reserved than I was, and it's just probably a natural reaction. But I don't know. I think it's sad.

Q: Do you think it's forever? You'll always feel this way?

Whitmer: I don't know. Maybe when I'm not in the public eye, it'll recede. But I don't know.

Q: In your book, you said that you hope to sit down with some of the men who were convicted of trying to kidnap and kill you to talk to them. What would you want to talk to them about?

Whitmer: I'd like to understand. I really would. When I campaigned and whenever I do roundtables, I'm always asking people, "What could I do that'll make your life better?" Or, "What's going on in your life that you want to share with me?" It was around reproductive freedom, all the roundtables we did, or "fix the damn road" conversations that I started to try to figure out, how do we find common ground again? I would like to understand the instinct to take up weapons and plot. The assassination of a governor is not a rational conclusion to a stay-at-home order [during the pandemic]. It's just not. And so, what was going on there?

And maybe there's something I can learn. Maybe there's something from a part of the state or a part of the human experience that'll make me a better leader or give me some insight that I can do something constructive with. Maybe there's nothing. Maybe I won't learn anything, but I'd like to see,

Q: Do you have a theory on how we got to a place where a group of guys in Michigan, in response to a stay-at-home order during a public health emergency, would decide to try to kill you?

Whitmer: Well, there are probably a lot of different pieces that inform the moment. We had a Midwestern governor's group that would check in pretty regularly, and one of my colleagues said, "Gretchen, you're doing all the same things the rest of us are doing. Why you take so much more crap for it?" And the last word landed, and he said, "Wait, don't answer that. I already know: You're the one woman doing it." He deduced that.

But I do think that there is a level of misogyny that is part of the American experience at the moment. And I don't like saying that, but when a woman was telling people what to do or what not to do, it was met with this overreaction ? "Let's grab our guns and lock people in the Capitol and set it on fire and kill her and her police officers." That didn't get that same kind of heat against my male colleagues. So I do think that that maybe was a part of it....

Q: You write that you hope your book will be a light in a dark place. How have we gotten ourselves into such a dark place?

Whitmer: I think a lot of different things that are a part of it, the kind of political rhetoric that is now considered acceptable, where you can demonize and I think mobilize people to hurt someone with whom you disagree, and that we've come to accept that as a part of our culture. Now, one of the things I think about and I worry about is people who are coming of age in these times thinking that this is the norm. Whereas I look at it and it's just so galling and I think about, how do we either get back to a place where we can disagree and still talk to one another and not demonize one another and try to hurt one another or get forward to that place? How do we make sure that this is not the trajectory, the new normal? And I think that's what concerns me the most.

The eagerness to take up weapons and hurt someone who doesn't agree with you is something that's not acceptable. And I keep hoping that we'll have a course correction, but whether it's the dissemination of misinformation and social media that is throwing gas on this fire or not, or that in addition to other things, I think it's really concerning to me. I worry about young people. And what does the future of debate and policy democracy look like if you think that this is how it is or how it's supposed to be?

Q: Sometimes when people write memoirs, they figure out things they hadn't understood. Did you?

Whitmer: I think a through line being, I'm a caregiver. That has come to me that whether it's taking care of my mom and my daughter, or it's public service and trying to help people, or it was watching over my siblings when I was the tender age of seven, trying to make sure everyone was organized and taken care of. And my dad, I left him notes. I worried about him, and I think that's a part who I am that I can appreciate.

Now, I talked about that lump of clay, like the therapist at one time said, "Everyone's like a ball of clay, and sometimes something will hollow you out, but lo and behold, that can be what gives you purpose. You're a cup now and you can carry water," whatever. And I like looking at it that way because then I'm not mad that I've had some of these experiences that maybe I shouldn't have had to [undergo]. I can see value in them, and that gives me ? I don't know. I can be grateful for that and see purpose in it.

Q: You opened the prologue of your book with your grandmother, Nino. She gave a lot of advice. What advice would she give you right now?

Whitmer: I think she'd be proud of me. I think that she would tell me to just work hard, don't part my hair in the middle, and that was who she was. I think she'd be proud and that she would tell me to just keep going.

This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: Gretchen Whitmer's candid conversation with USA TODAY: Transcript