In E. Jean Carroll case, expert says Trump could owe $12M (or much more) for defamation
NEW YORK – After a day of fireworks that saw Donald Trump threatened with expulsion from the courtroom, an expert for advice columnist E. Jean Carroll testified that the price to repair the harm caused by Trump for defaming her could be as high as $12.1 million – not including any punitive damages.
The $12.1 million figure was the high end of estimated ranges Northwestern University professor Ashlee Humphreys testified to on Thursday based on the impact of two statements Trump made in 2019 denying that he had sexually assaulted Carroll nearly three decades ago.
Humphreys said she analyzed the number of readers and viewers who encountered Trump's statements through various news outlets, and the cost of a campaign to repair the reputational damage to Carroll.
Trump, who attended jury selection on the first day of the trial and the full second day of proceedings, was in Florida on Thursday for the funeral of his mother-in-law, Amalija Knavs.
Martha Stewart, Taylor Swift highlighted as reputational repair models
Trump lawyer Michael Madaio peppered Humphreys with questions about whether she could could tell the difference between attacks Carroll received based on her accusations against Trump and those she received based on his 2019 denials. Humphreys said she looked at attacks against Carroll that came through comments on online posts of articles that included Trump's statements, and she noted language in some attacks that mirrored Trump's own words.
Madaio also questioned whether a reputational repair campaign could be successful for Carroll, and asked for examples. Celebrities Martha Stewart, Taylor Swift, and Justin Bieber all had campaigns that are "widely regarded" as successful, Humphreys replied, although she didn't know how much those campaigns had cost.
Humphreys testified that Carroll may want to hire someone like mega-podcaster Joe Rogan or conservative political commentator Candace Owens to support efforts to repair her reputation by targeting audiences receptive to Trump's claims, which Judge Lewis Kaplan has ruled were defamatory.
During the cross-examination, Humphreys said her analysis didn't count the roughly 75% of comments that may have been positive to Carroll, but included the roughly 25% that aligned with Trump. Earlier in the day, she said accusations that are believed even by only a minority of people can severely damage a person's reputation. She gave the example of an accusation that 20% of one's co-workers believe and 80% don't believe, noting it would cause reputational harm as it becomes a significant talking point in the office.
The current trial
Carroll has accused Trump of raping her in a department store dressing room in the mid-1990s. A civil jury in May ruled Trump was liable for sexual abuse over the incident, although it didn't find him liable for rape. It also ruled he defamed Carroll in 2022 when he called her accusation a "con job," and awarded her a combined $5 million.
The current trial focuses on two lengthy denials Trump made after Carroll went public with her story in 2019, including his statement that "people should pay dearly for such false accusations." Carroll's legal team has argued Trump unleashed his millions of followers on their client, and it's now Trump's turn to "pay dearly."
On Wednesday, Carroll testified that she may have deleted some of the threatening messages she received after filing her lawsuit against Trump, saying she "didn't know how to handle death threats" and wanted them out of her mind.
Trump attorney Alina Habba said that was grounds for a mistrial. "The witness just admitted to deleting emails," Habba told Kaplan.
Kaplan swiftly denied the request.
More: E. Jean Carroll seeks to prevent another Trump 'circus' in defamation damages trial
Judge and Trump clash over courtroom behavior
Trump can't claim in the current trial that he didn't assault Carroll given the May verdict; he can only fight Carroll's claims for damages over the 2019 statements, Kaplan ruled earlier.
But Trump has continued to trash Carroll's accusation. According to one of her lawyers, Trump could be heard Wednesday within earshot of jurors denigrating Carroll's claims as a "witch hunt" and "con job" from the defense table, even as she testified.
Kaplan warned that Trump could forfeit his right to be in the courtroom through disruptive behavior, adding that the 2024 Republican presidential front-runner was probably "very eager" to be kicked out. "I would love it," Trump shot back.
Trump campaigned in New Hampshire Wednesday evening and said Thursday morning he had arrived in Florida to attend the funeral of Melania Trump's mother. Kaplan has denied multiple requests from Trump's legal team to cancel Thursday's trial proceedings, although he said Trump may testify on Monday even if his defense team is otherwise finished on Thursday.
Judge keeps lawyers, Carroll in check
Kaplan has also taken Carroll and other lawyers on both sides to task at different times during the trial.
Carroll was reproached or cut off by the judge several times when he said her responses didn't address the specific question she was asked, or when she gave an answer after he sustained an objection to a question.
Kaplan was especially critical of Habba's trial lawyering Thursday. After he sustained an objection to one of her questions, she asked for the basis of the objection. "This is not my law school examination," he replied. When he ruled a question from Habba to Carroll about income that used the vague term "good amount" was improper, he told the lawyer, "It's evidence 101."
But the judge also reproached other attorneys in the courtroom, telling one Carroll lawyer who wanted Habba admonished about a question, "We're not going to make a mountain out of every molehill in this case." Kaplan also supported Habba's defense of her questioning: "When you're right, you're right, Ms. Habba."
Trump's ongoing attacks are fodder to Carroll's lawyers
Trump continued attacking Carroll's claims on social media Wednesday night, saying in all-caps that he "NEVER TOUCHED HER, OR IN ANY WAY WOULD WANT TO TOUCH HER." It's not the first time Trump has disparaged Carroll by suggesting she wasn't his "type," even though when shown a photo of Carroll during a deposition he mistook his accuser for Marla Maples, his spouse from 1993 to 1999.
On Thursday, Trump posted screenshots of past tweets from Carroll, many of which discussed sex.
Habba presented some of those same tweets in court when she cross-examined Carroll, including one from 2015 that stated, "How do you know your 'unwanted sexual advance' is unwanted, until you advance it?" Carroll explained her tweet by way of example: a person who reaches for another person's hand doesn't know whether the recipient wants to hold hands until the recipient reacts, she said.
The ongoing attacks by Trump form a key part of Carroll's case for why he should have to pay a hefty price above and beyond compensating her for the direct harm his 2019 statements caused. Carroll lawyer Shawn Crowley said in opening statements that jurors should consider what price tag will make the "self-proclaimed billionaire" leave her client alone.
"It's time to make him stop. It's time to make him pay dearly for what he's done," Crowley said.
This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: In E. Jean Carroll case, expert says Trump could owe $12M or more
