Robert De Niro on Why He’s Taking His Hit N.Y.C. Restaurant Uptown
Above, from left: Josh Pickard, Robert De Niro, Andrew Carmellini, and Luke Ostrom at The Greenwich Hotel.
When the original Locanda Verde opened in 2009, no one expected it to be a hit. The New York City restaurant, which occupies the ground-floor corner of Robert De Niro’s Greenwich Hotel, debuted amid the fallout of the Great Recession. At the time, the bankers and bigwigs who’d traded near its Tribeca address were either out of work or had seen their expense accounts gutted. It didn’t help that the space’s previous dining concept, Ago, got awful reviews (example: “No pig should perish for a pork chop as dry as one at Ago”) and shut its doors in under a year.
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De Niro, as famous for his unflappable pragmatism as he is for his award-winning film roles, pushed through the noise and came up with a plan B. He hired Andrew Carmellini, a Michelin-starred chef’s chef, to take the lead in the kitchen. Carmellini answered the call by serving a soul-satisfying take on urban Italian food, which was so good that the place started getting packed. On more than one occasion, “I think I ran out of chicken,” Carmellini says of those early days. Supply shortages notwithstanding, the restaurant quickly developed a reputation as the place to see celebrities: Beyoncé and Jay-Z; Posh and Becks; Meghan and Harry, all diners.
But Locanda Verde didn’t just sell stacks of crab crostini and gallons of Sicilian sheep’s milk ricotta to boldfaced names. It also united De Niro, Carmellini, Luke Ostrom (who’d cooked with the head chef at several restaurants), and Josh Pickard (the restaurateur behind Lure Fish Bar and the Michelin-winning Lever House) as partners. In short order, the three non–movie stars formed NoHo Hospitality Group, which has since opened 24 restaurants in the Big Apple and beyond. If you’ve ever waited in line for pastries at Lafayette, cut into the duck meat loaf at the Dutch, or unfolded a freshly ironed napkin at Café Carmellini, you have these guys to thank.
Together with De Niro, they’ve done more to shape the image of New York City than most. And they aren’t finished: In November, the foursome will open a second, more refined Locanda Verde location in Hudson Yards, the multibillion-dollar real-estate development along Manhattan’s West Side. As their teams put the final touches on the new space, they sat down with Robb Report for an exclusive conversation about how fine dining has changed in the Big Apple, their increasingly sophisticated wine list, and why the future of luxury might be less about exclusivity and more about good old-fashioned comfort. This interview has been edited and condensed for space and clarity.
I want to start with something slightly controversial: What makes someone a New Yorker?
Andrew Carmellini: There’s always the seven-year rule, right? After seven years here, you’re a New Yorker. None of the three of us [pointing to Ostrom and Pickard] were born here, but we’ve been here a long time.
Robert De Niro: I was just telling someone, you know, New York is really made of non–New Yorkers, because they come here to do something they aspire to. I happen to be born and raised here, but most people I know are not. I think a New Yorker is someone who loves being here and is here for the right reasons.
Josh Pickard: When I moved here in 1990, I was told it was a 10-year rule. Ten years and a couple jury duties.
I have a friend who says it’s 10 years or the first time you steal a taxi from someone—whichever comes first.
Luke Ostrom: That’s true. This city takes a certain kind of elbowing people out of the way.
Locanda Verde, though, is not like that at all. It’s very welcoming and comforting—very much about making people feel secure and looked after.
LO: I would say, from the very beginning of this restaurant—and really our approach still today—it’s always been about being for the neighborhood, being approachable. It’s still the approach we take now. It’s one that we want to keep doing.
AC: In my first meeting with Bob, actually, he said that’s what he wanted, you know? It’s less about the velvet rope and more about the neighborhood.
JP: Besides the culinary perspective—being comfortable in terms of the style of food, the way it’s presented—we try to make sure that the hospitality creates the comfort. In a lot of ways, it’s the people you interact with, our team, that creates that feeling.
This hotel is built from handmade brick and a lot of imported European salvage. Is that aesthetic going to make sense at the base of a glass skyscraper in a brand-new neighborhood?
AC: That was really one of the hesitations in the beginning. How do you translate it properly? It’s why we chose Roman & Williams as the interior designers. They’re really good with materiality, and they’re really good with the storytelling.
What did you have to do to balance all that modernity with the feeling of this place, the velvet cushions and leather chesterfields and so on?
LO: We spent six months talking about exactly the best way to make it work. We pictured an old Milanese luxury home set inside the corner of this much more modern, bigger building. So much so that we built framed-out windows with Italian shutters and curtains right behind the glass facade of the building.
Talk to me about the menu. Is it going to evolve to meet that more refined aesthetic?
AC: One thing I’ve learned, here especially, is that people are coming back for the same things they love and adore year after year. So those, let’s call them, 15 dishes are all going to be there. But we did revisit all those things. I literally went to every single thing we’ve been doing since the beginning and remade everything from scratch, just to freshen everything up a little bit.
Is there anything you want to take off the menu?
RD: My feeling is, if it’s not broke, don’t fix it. Whatever that signature dish is should always be there.
What else about the new neighborhood feels significant to you?
RD: My father [artist Robert De Niro Sr.] used to have a studio, I guess on Tenth Avenue and 33rd Street, about a block from the new restaurant.
LO: Is that building still there?
RD: The building is gone. New York is always changing, and that’s O.K.
I’m glad you brought that up, because all of the artwork in the new space will be his. Why is that important to you?
RD: Because you’re not supposed to do that. You’re supposed to keep it precious and guarded. But art is to be seen. I’m lucky enough to have places to put his artwork. And of course, I’m partial, but it’s great art. It’s genuine art, done with love and extreme care. And so why shouldn’t it be seen?
LO: And we’ve actually leaned in a little further beyond just the artwork on the wall. It’s on some of the collateral touchpoints, like the drink coasters or the backing of the menus themselves.
RD: I like that. You know these coasters, I forget whose idea that was, but I think these are great.
Speaking of drinks, I know people consume serious amounts of great Italian wine here. Are people more curious about or interested in Italian wines than they were when you opened?
AC: I definitely think Italian-wine knowledge has expanded a lot over the last 15, 20 years, for sure, especially since Italian wine is still fairly misunderstood overall. But a lot of people go to Italy.
So, they’re kind of understanding the different regionality of it. We didn’t have a reserve list when we opened.
LO: In fact, I think it all fit on the back of a piece of paper.
JP: I think one of the things that I’ve seen change since I got here is that dining in general has become a bigger part of people’s lives, especially young people. In the last 20 years, nightlife has fallen off, and dining has become a bigger part of the socialization process.
This place is a magnet for some very talented people. Beyond the Robert De Niro of it all, what’s the secret for getting so many celebrities in the door?
LO: It’s hard to say that there’s one equation for that. It’s the medley of everything, the way the room is dressed. It’s the way the room is lit. It’s the way the room sounds with the soundtrack and smells and the cooking that’s happening and the smile, hopefully, at the door when you walk in.
AC: We try to be generally fairly democratic about it. One of the great New York things that should happen—and used to, but it’s not happening as much anymore for a variety of reasons— is that mix of neighborhood people, of celebrities, of various creatives in different industries all put together.
Sort of like your partnership. I’m curious how it is that four such different people seem to work so well together?
RD: We stay out of each other’s way. [Everyone laughs.] Let everybody do their thing.
AC: Excellent answer.
As partners, is there anything you’re not going to do together? Is there anything that New York’s dining scene doesn’t need from you?
AC: We don’t need another private club. And that goes back to what I was saying before about that back-in-the-day sensibility. It takes away from the energy of New York. What there should be is this cross-pollination of people in general: different socioeconomic backgrounds, different cultural backgrounds.
Can you still give people a sense of luxury without the exclusivity that those spaces offer?
LO: Yeah, for sure. I think that really comes with the core philosophy of service and hospitality. I think people do want exclusive experiences sometimes, but realistically, people just as often celebrate at the little spot in their neighborhood that they know they can rely on.
Final question. When does Robert De Niro become “Bob” to you?
[Everyone laughs.]
JP: I think after my first martini with him.
AC: Sharing a martini with him.
LO: I would agree with that.
And here you are, 15 years later.
RD: I’m just happy we’re all here, trying to encourage the best with everybody. That’s the way it works.
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