Oprah Talks About the Importance of Letting Go of Guilt
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In the latest “The Life You Want” Class on forgiveness, Oprah sat down with Nedra Glover Tawwab, relationship expert, therapist, and New York Times bestselling author of Set Boundaries, Find Peace, and a handful of Insiders. During the conversation, one Insider named Leslie shared that she had been sexually abused by a gynecologist in February of 1990, while she was a student at the University of Southern California. Despite the trauma, Leslie never said anything. "I didn't have the language to explain what happened to me," she says.
Fast-forward to May of 2019: Leslie says she was stunned to see an article in The Los Angeles Times that revealed that the same gynecologist who sexually abused her had gone on to do the same thing to thousands of other women. "Knowing that I'm one of the first young women that this man assaulted, and all of the thousands of women that came after me, I feel guilty," she shared. "[It's] just so hard to reconcile the guilt that I feel."
Oprah was quick to highlight that back when Leslie was assaulted, most people weren't even sure what sexual abuse was or how to describe it. "In the '90s, we had a very dense culture when it came to understanding what sexual assault was." Oprah went on to say that she did upwards of 230 different shows "during the years of The Oprah Show on sexual assault, trying to get people to understand the nature of what that meant."
Even now, Oprah said that "it took Harvey Weinstein and the #MeToo movement to bring this to the forefront in a way that it could be heard." Up until then, she said, "we were speaking in a void, so it took another two decades for people to be able to even hear it, and to be able to feel comfortable enough to actually say, 'Me too.' 'Me too.' 'Me too.'"
To see this "The Life You Want" Class clip highlighting this #MeToo moment in its entirety, watch the clip above—or read below!
Oprah: Leslie, you said you have unresolved forgiveness with yourself. Tell us why.
Leslie: Well, Oprah, I went to the University of Southern California. I graduated in 1990. In August of 1989, a gynecologist started working at the school, and he was the only gynecologist for almost 30 years. I saw him in February of 1990. In 2018, the L.A. Times wrote an article, an exposé, about the abuse and assault that he was leveling on thousands of young women for almost 30 years. I found out about it in May of 2019. I didn't have the language to explain what happened to me, but what I can say is—I guess 55 is a big year now—55 years I've been on this earth, have given birth to two children, and I have never experienced a gynecological exam that was as invasive or long as the one that I had then.
Leslie: But we weren't in the conversation of assault and abuse. And so looking back, and knowing that I'm one of the first young women that this man assaulted, and all of the thousands of women that came after me, I feel guilty. I know rationally that it's not my fault. He is a monster for what he did, but if I had had the language to speak up, if I had had support at the school, maybe it could have been a different outcome for many, many other women. It is difficult.
Leslie: In the beginning when I found out, I had nightmares for months. I went through trauma therapy, and then started the contextual therapy. Recently I found out that among the survivors were actually a few women that were under 18 years old. They started college young. It almost sent me back to the same place—just so hard to reconcile the guilt that I feel.
Oprah: Nedra, this has to be something you hear a lot with trauma. What do you say to women like Leslie, and how do you have self-grace in these moments?
Nedra: I think about this—you talk about, at that time, you did not know. And that is the phrase that I hope gives you some peace. At the time, you did not know. I think you need to repeat that to yourself over and over until you believe it. "I did not know." You didn't know that you were being abused. You didn't know that this was a situation that other people were experiencing. If you had known, you would've very likely done something different, but for your peace, you have to remember, you did not know.
Nedra: Please do not hold it against yourself that now you know, right? Now you know, but you did not know then, and I know that's really hard to accept, but that is the truth. You did not know. If you had known, this would not be a conversation you would be having. And that is hard to accept, that we don't know everything that would be a problem in the future. We can't go back and change things. But you can today say, "What I'm saying right now is freeing somebody who is watching this talk. What I experienced makes me more aware in certain situations." But you cannot go back and change the past. That's one of the things that Oprah spoke about earlier. You have to give up the hope that the past can be any different. And as long as you are bound to this idea of shoulda, woulda, coulda, "I can't believe this happened, how did I not see this?", you will not be able to rest.
Leslie: I think the thing that makes it that much more hard to process is that at the time, I had actually raised my hand as a whistleblower because a coach was having an inappropriate relationship with one of the athletes at the school. Instead of being supported and believed, I sustained a retribution campaign that was micro- and macro-aggressions. I felt like if I raised my hand, and I wasn't exactly sure what to call it—in my heart of hearts, I knew that something happened—but I said If I raise my hand, and I can't even describe or really tell what happened here, and on the other situation I know what happened, I'm gonna be kicked out of the school. I mean, there I am accusing another powerful white man on the campus. It makes me feel so angry with all of the different players in the other situation that now I can see impacted this situation that could have been different. But you're right.
Oprah: It wouldn't have mattered—may I say this? I don't believe, and being the oldest person here I will speak from a space of having talked to thousands of people over the years, and having had 230 different shows that we did during the years of The Oprah Show on sexual assault, sexual abuse, trying to get people to understand the nature of what that meant. And I will tell you that in the '90s, we had a very dense culture when it came to understanding what sexual assault was, what sexual abuse was. I mean, we couldn't even do shows in the '90s with children on the missing milk cartons without sinking in the ratings, 'cause nobody wanted to hear the possibility that their child could actually be taken. You couldn't have a conversation about sexual assault happening in other people's families because you got everybody defending, "Well, he was a good brother to me," or "He was a good..." So I don't think it has anything to do—I mean, I think white and powerful is another separate issue—but if it was your brother, your uncle, your whomever you were working with, in the '90s, and you don't have the language—which is the reason why most children, most people don't speak up is because you're not even sure what it is, or how to describe what it is. And immediately people go on the attack of you. "Well, what are you saying? And what are you accusing this person for?"
Oprah: I remember being on set the day the news came out about Harvey Weinstein, and other women on set actually saying, "Me too" or "That happened to me too" or "This happened to me too." This is what I know, having lived with The Oprah Show from 1986, finishing The Oprah Show for 25 years in 2011, that we only evolved a little bit in our ability to have the conversation, that it actually took Harvey Weinstein, 2017, and the #MeToo movement to bring this to the forefront in a way that it could actually be heard. So, whatever you would've said in 1990, I can assure you, Leslie, would not have been heard, would not have resonated in the same way that it was able to decades later when you first heard the story.
Nedra: Yes.
Leslie: Amen to that.
Oprah: That that's the truth. That's the truth. You would've been out there hung to dry by yourself. You're right, probably kicked out of school, accosted, attacked, all of that because the times were not ready for it. People were not ready to hear it. And I'm telling you, my frustration over the years as a victim of sexual abuse and assault myself, trying to get people to actually understand what it was and what it meant—'90s, we were speaking in a void.
Leslie: Yeah.
Oprah: We were speaking in a void. So it took another two decades for people to be able to even hear it, and to be able to feel comfortable enough to actually say, "Me too." "Me too." "Me too."
Watch Oprah's full “The Life You Want” Class on forgiveness here and catch up on all of our "The Life You Want" classes here.
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