Matt Hancock’s cringey Diary of a CEO interview is as candid as it is awkward

When entrepreneur and Dragons Den investor Steven Bartlett brought his hit podcast, The Diary of a CEO, to the stage in London recently he was accompanied by a gospel choir and piano player.

Sadly neither was available as Bartlett sat down with former Health Secretary Matt Hancock a few days later for the recording of the latest episode of The Diary of a CEO. It’s hard to overstate what a missed opportunity this turns out to be: imagine how much more engaging the one hour 46 minutes would have been soundtracked by covers of Gnarls Barkley’s Crazy or the gospel hymn O Happy Day.

“Crazy” – in the sense of being slightly miffed – would certainly have made for a suitable sonic accompaniment as Bartlett asks Hancock about the affair with Department of Health adviser Gina Coladangelo which led to his resignation after leaked CCTV footage showed the pair breaching social distancing restrictions.

Hancock has been chirpy and reflective throughout the preceding 90 minutes – and keen to engage in a podcast which, he feels, creates a space “where people can talk about where things go well…and where people have failed”.

Now, though, things are all going slightly Gnarls Barkley. “Do you think you could ask the question in a little more respectful way?” asks Hancock – who, on the YouTube stream of the podcast, can be seen wearing “Alpha Dad on day off” uniform of black sweater and jeans.

“Can we start again. The opening bit about casual sex…” repeats Hancock, who objects to the framing of the story as if it were a quick fling. In fact, he and Coladangelo are in love (she has accompanied him to the recording) and he has never had “casual sex” in his life. Which is both a scoop for Bartlett and the best definition yet of “Too Much Information”.

As is perhaps inevitable when the subject at hand is Matt Hancock’s sex life it’s a terribly strange exchange. Bartlett sits there repeating that he hasn’t actually asked a question yet. And on the YouTube feed Hancock squirms while trying his best not to look as if he’s squirming.

And yet it never feels as if either party is delivering reheated talking points. The exchange has all the candidness and awkwardness of a genuine conversation – rather than a terse game of gotcha between an ex-politician and an interrogator with a huge global audience.

There is a tendency for big name podcasters to feel they are reinventing the wheel and that is true of Bartlett. Not that his story isn’t inspirational. Born in Botswana, he moved with his family to Plymouth when he was two and was ostracised as the only black kid in school (he tells Hancock how demeaned he had felt being called the “n-word” in the playground). After dropping out of university, he established social-media marketing business Social Chain, which went public with a valuation of ￡300 million, leaving Bartlett with an estimated net worth of ￡50 million. At 29, he’s also the youngest Dragon’s Den “Dragon”.

Yet while Bartlett is undoubtedly someone to look-up to his podcast is in some ways quite ho-hum. It follows the same format popularised by American interviewers such as Mark Maron and Dax Shepard in which the interviewee is given time and space for an in-depth discussion. And where the podcaster pretends they are above common journalistic tittle-tattle – whilst making sure to smuggle in the occasional prurient question.

Formulaic it may be. Diary of a CEO is, nonetheless, a stone cold smash, with 2021 revenues estimated at ￡1.2 million. Previous guests have included Liam Payne, Jimmy Carr and Love Islander Molly-Mae Hague. Hancock is a fan, too, and appreciates how Bartlett manages “to get people to be really honest about themselves”.

Hancock is undoubtedly forthcoming as Bartlett traces his guest’s journey from school in Cheshire to Oxford and then to high office as Health Secretary during a once-in-a-century pandemic.

And you can see why Hancock is eager to participate. Though Bartlett is never sycophantic, the former Health Secretary nonetheless has the opportunity to show that he’s a normal human being rather than a stiff in a suit.

He expresses misgivings, for instance, about wiping away a tear during a Good Morning Britain appearance on the day a Covid vaccine was announced. “Maybe I should have just been more relaxed about it because I got a load of abuse for looking inauthentic,” he says

Bartlett opens the recording by explaining that his goal is to “create a platform where we see behind the scenes, where we get the truth. where we get the context”. Thoughtful and relaxed, but never meandering or indulgent, his bantering with Hancock certainly achieves those aims. Does it matter that, in so doing, it ends up sounding like every other “long form” interview podcast out there?