On this episode of Yahoo Finance Presents, Alexis Christoforous sat down with actors Simon Russell Beale, Adam Godley, and Adrian Lester of "The Lehman Trilogy," a play on Broadway documenting the origin story to the Lehman Brothers firm which collapsed into bankruptcy in 2008. They discuss the return to Broadway post COVID, the symbolism of the props and stage design, and the deeper meaning behind the play's story.
Video Transcript
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Hello, everyone. And welcome to Yahoo Finance Presents. I'm Alexis Christoforous. And we have a treat for you today. We have the actors of the Lehman Trilogy on Broadway-- Simon Russell Beale, Adam Godley, and Adrian Lester.
Gentlemen, thanks so much for being with us. Congratulations because Broadway has truly embraced this show. Simon, I'm going to start with you. What does it feel like to be back in front of a live audience after nearly two years of being shut down?
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: Well, can I first say, talk about what it was like to stop, because we did four shows in what seems like years ago of this play. And then we suddenly had to stop. And then it was all a bit of a shock. So for a year and a half, we've been sort of in suspended animation.
And it's absolutely marvelous to get back. And the audiences have been so generous. And there've been lots of people, which we didn't necessarily expect because people were wary, I think, of going back to the theater. But thank goodness, they have. And it's terrific.
I mean, last night, they were absolutely marvelous, weren't they, boys, in their response.
ADRIAN LESTER: Yeah, it's nice. It's nice. And a couple of-- a couple of people have said that they've got a bit very moved, not just by performance or anything like that, but just by being in an audience again, and having that massive collective response of hearing everyone laugh or, you know, react with pleasure or displeasure or whatever at what's going on. But that collective experience has really hit them. And they're desperate to go and see more plays.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Yeah, that was definitely my--
ADAM GODLEY: Sometimes, a round of applause as the curtain goes up, which is, you know--
ADRIAN LESTER: Yes. Like we made it.
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: You remember, Sam? Sam Mendes, our director, made a speech on the very first night, which was actually a wonderful speech. Just saying thanks to the audience for coming at all, and just getting it all going again. It was very moving.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Yeah. That I-- I definitely experienced all of that, being back in that seat, you know, with the anticipation of waiting for that curtain to rise. And frankly, I didn't know what to expect. You know, having covered the Lehman collapse, myself, being a Finance reporter. I was very curious about how this story was going to be told.
But before we get into the nitty gritty, Adam, tell me what it feels like to tell this particular story in New York City, blocks away from where the Lehman collapse occurred. Because this story, in many ways, is a very personal one, I think, for the city of New York.
ADAM GODLEY: Yeah. And we found this in our previous run in New York when we were at the armory, where I think you first saw it. Telling this story in America, and particularly, in this city, New York, feels completely different for us.
There's so much, as you've said, of this story that hits home to people. There are-- they're working at Lehman. They work in the financial industry. They work in the city, New York. The play is also very much about New York.
And a lot of the things we reference, I've said this elsewhere-- to a London audience, we're presenting an exotic world. And to a New York audience, we're talking about them and their life and their city. So we very much felt like we're bringing the show back home.
And it's very noticeable that there are things that the audience here will chuckle about or, you know, make some kind of vocalization about because they understand it on a very deep, personal level. And it's completely different to how it was in London, where people would-- the responses sort of slightly different.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: You know, Adrian, I want to ask you about the boxes. Because again, as somebody who covered this story, I have a real visual. I can remember, very clearly, the employees of Lehman pouring out of the building with their belongings in those boxes after they went bankrupt.
And boxes are a big part of your set. They're part of the storytelling throughout the three hours. Tell us about the importance of those boxes.
ADRIAN LESTER: Well, they contain a life, really. Everyone who walked out with a box in their hand had their-- had their sort of financial life-- their professional life with Lehman's in that box. And-- and as they were exiting-- I think even now, walking out of an office with one of those boxes has become a symbol for someone who's been let go.
And they're carrying their-- all their hopes and dreams, and also, probably, their pension statements in that box as they-- as they leave. But I joined the cast for this run on Broadway. And so the-- the development of the idea of the boxes, I think, Simon and Adam can talk to that much more. But I think it came from the images that were seen when the employees were leaving the building and carrying those boxes in their gray or navy blue suits.
And that was a lasting image that sort of started with, and wanted to play with when he started to put the play on its feet.
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: And we've developed the show at the very beginning. We had a sort of blank canvas about what we could use to tell the story. And we had sort of props around the room-- coffee machines, and essentially, it was all set in an office to expand those [INAUDIBLE].
So it had lots of stuff. And gradually, it whittled down to these boxes, didn't it, Adam? That's what, as you say, that is the image that we have of that crisis of the people leaving the boxes. So that was the one that stuck. And we realized, we could actually, probably, build most things just with the boxes. And that's how it ended up.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Yeah, it's brilliant the way you-- the way you use them. Yeah. Yeah. No, go ahead, Adam.
ADAM GODLEY: I was going to say, you know, it's a sort of general exercise in kind of minimalism. Also, we wanted to-- I think the idea was also that everything the three brothers used to tell is epic story. Any props that they use are things that you would find in that conference room on the top of that building.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Yeah.
ADAM GODLEY: Es Devlin's design-- design suggests in our design.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: You know, you mentioned the great Sam Mendes, of course, the-- the Oscar winning Sam Mendes, who directs this play. As much as it is a theatrical production, I felt there were a lot of cinematic elements to the staging.
Maybe, you know, Adam, do you want to take a stab at that? You know, how did that help you sort of storytell and-- and live in the moment as the actor?
ADAM GODLEY: Well, you know, as I said, we're telling a story that lasts 116 years, and in some detail. And you know, we've got to do that with a degree of speed, and-- and to make it as entertaining and clear as possible to the audience.
So we've got this huge screen that wraps around-- Es Devlin's glass box, which is the set, this revolving glass box. And Luke Halls, who developed those projections, was able to suggest different parts of the world, different moods, all sorts of things with a kind of visual narrative that's going on at the same time as we're telling the story.
And because the walls of the set are glass, you're able to see through all the windows behind us. We're often not-- not aware of what-- what the audience are seeing. But I think the net result for the audience is something, visually, very spectacular and extraordinary and unusual for theater.
And I think as you said, that's part of Sam's-- what he's learned in film that he's brought to the theater. for sure.
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: Follow up-- as you say, we very rarely-- there are quite a few bits that I've never ever seen. That is funny to think of, yeah.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
ADAM GODLEY: Was too busy [INAUDIBLE]
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Watch it. Because you'll be really impressed. You cover a lot of ground, Adam, as you said. You know, over 160 years through World Wars, through the Great Depression. Adrian, was there-- is there this disseminal event that, fundamentally, changed the Lehman Brothers business, do you think?
ADRIAN LESTER: I think it's-- it's at the point where they stop trading things-- tangible, physical things, for money, and start trading the ideas of things for money. They start going into futures. They start talking about returns and prospects and so on.
And there's a point where my character says, that money is numbers, money is a ghost, money is air. And when the real-- the-- the thing that broke the-- the Lehman Brothers in 2008, I think, was an idea that without the belief, without the will from people to hold the idea of getting their money back in the future, if they want their money now, if enough people say, I've had enough. I want my money back now, the banks would collapse.
And that's what happened, basically.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Yeah.
ADRIAN LESTER: I'm not going to sum it up in a simplistic form. I mean, you're the expert. But in a way, you see the play move from the idea of trading-- you know, buying and selling tangible objects to--
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Like cotton, right?
ADRIAN LESTER: Like-- like cotton, to the idea of-- of trading. And what those numbers mean for millions of people.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: You know there's a line I believe your character says, Adrian-- well, first of all, for those who aren't familiar. Each of you plays many, many characters throughout, but not with different-- not with different costumes.
It's just-- it's amazing to watch how you just become these different people with-- with-- with the way you're standing or the way you're speaking. And Adrian, it's-- it's when you're another character-- I think, somebody in marketing, when-- when the company has become much more mature. And you say something like, and I'm paraphrasing, soon they'll give us money they don't have for things they don't need.
ADRIAN LESTER: Yeah.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: And it reminded me of the whole greed. You know, well, greed is good from Wall Street. Do you think-- and anyone who wants to answer here, that-- that we do see this story evolve where greed is sort of at the core?
ADRIAN LESTER: Anybody want to jump in?
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: It sort I've assigned it.
ADAM GODLEY: I think the play suggests Massini-- Stefano Massini, who wrote the work at this play, is sort of created out of. Wanted to suggest, as Adrian has just said, that once-- once a company becomes untethered from providing a service, once the people within the company are no longer a part of their community, you're kind of potentially spinning out of control. There's nothing anchoring you to anything.
And I think that's what you see gradually happening during the course of the 160 years. They started out providing a service for their community. And by the end, it's sort of-- it's not tethered to anything. So I think there's definitely that suggestion in there. And there's also the spiritual connection as well, which is sort of mapped out through the play.
ADRIAN LESTER: Yeah. The one thing that the play, I think, looks at with-- with great respect is the-- their connection to each other as-- as brothers. the three characters, to start, and their connection to their faith. And then quite quickly you see that out of tragedy, they learn to exploit need. And to start to make money on the back of suffering.
And once that starts to happen, then-- then they're off and running, very slowly, but that's-- that's what the play describes. Many people come, thinking they're going to see a very specific and detailed breakdown at the 2008 crash. And that's not what happens. What you see is a very detailed and specific breakdown of what led up to that over 160 years.
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: And I think it's difficult to define it at what point ambition becomes greed, for instance. You know, when you say--
ADRIAN LESTER: How much is enough?
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: How much is enough. And I'm picking up on the other thing that Adrian points out, which goes right from the very start of the play. This thing about belief that the system-- I'm no economic expert, but by no means.
But I mean, at some point, an economic system has to rely on people's trust in its value and its workability. And right from the very beginning, these three brothers are going around saying, believe in us, believe in us. And people do, up until the point when they don't. And then the belief goes.
And that word belief, trust me, believe in it, believe in it. And when they get to the point at about suddenly people not trusting, and then wanting to sell their shares at all mass is a terrible moment because the belief has gone. So it's a very intangible behave-- there's this thing behavioral economics, isn't there? During intangible moment, when behavioral economics hits hard. And it's not about things you can really work out. It's about non-specific things like belief.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: You know, it is true that the show-- the play does not really take head on what happened in 2008. But in many ways, I found the part about the Great Depression and what happened during the Great Crash of 1929 was, in many ways, of foreshadowing.
And what I, especially, took away was that during your conversation, I forget who says this-- you were talking about how Lehman Brothers didn't want to be among the first banks to fail because the government would allow that to happen. And then they would step in.
But if you fast forward 80 years later, Lehman Brothers was, I believe, the second bank to fail behind Bear Stearns. So they weren't that lucky then, right?
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: That's something that Adams character says. And it's an extraordinary moment when he says, let's allow some of our competitors to go. But we won't step in to save them. And I think it is you, isn't it, Adam?
The moment when he's talking to his father, who's I'm playing--
ADAM GODLEY: Yes.
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: --I was very surprised by that. You know, we don't step in to help. And as you say, that's exactly what happened to them in 2008. It's a mirror image of presumably what happened in 2008.
ADAM GODLEY: Yeah, history repeating itself.
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: I mean, it's quite-- it's-- it's-- I have to say that in the new version, we had to mention COVID. So the way we did that was to mention the flu epidemic.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: The audience definitely laughed at that.
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: Yeah. But exactly the same debates were happening about masks and--
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Yeah.
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: I believe, the New York subway was closed in the early 20th century. So it's quite fun to be able to just tap that in as--
ADRIAN LESTER: Yeah, it repeats itself.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: The irony was definitely not lost on the audience. The show is more-- it's 3 and 1/2 hours with two intermissions. And I never once looked at my watch because I felt like I was engaged the whole time and it really moved quite well.
But another thing I did that I didn't expect to do was laugh a lot. Tell me, Adrian, the importance of humor and levity to a show like this.
ADRIAN LESTER: It's a-- It's a show about a crash-- really. I mean, some people will think it's just a about a crash. But laughter-- the characters that the three of us managed to find in the piece and how we bring them to life.
People laugh out of recognition as soon as-- I think the very first moment that one of the three brothers becomes someone else is when Simon becomes an owner of a plantation, and then becomes a prospective wife for Adam's character. And it's just lovely to have the tension released in the audience in that way.
And it's refreshing. It's like a cool drink of water for the mind. And then after that moment of release and laughter, then you re-engage with the story. And so over three and 1/2 hours, we use that a lot.
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: I think we enjoyed it. I mean, we enjoyed the absurdity of it. I forget that I'm a rather plump six-year-old with a beard when I'm playing an 18-year-old young girl from Alabama. In my head, that's what I am, so yeah.
ADRIAN LESTER: And It works. And the audience-- the audience enjoy the journey. They enjoy the fact that they're with us to play. They're three storytellers saying, we're going to be many different people at many different times.
And we're going to do that to tell the story, and the audience get in there with us. And it's the most powerful thing in the theater, really, is to ask the audience to imagine. And they say, OK. And then they go with you, and you're both on the journey. It's great.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: I know that you each play so many different characters. And-- and-- and in the end, people are not going to understand this unless they see the show, which they need to go do. But Adam, you basically twist yourself to death. You're all doing the twist. Is it--
ADRIAN LESTER: It's one of my favorite moments.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Oh, it is phenomenal. It really is. Do you have a favorite character amongst all that you play, Adam?
ADAM GODLEY: You know, I love them all. And as the others have said, you know, it's the magic of theater that we get to do that live every night in front of an audience sort of transform from men to women, to children, to babies, to old people. You know, it's-- it's wonderful and it's so challenging and rewarding, as an actor, to do that.
I think, you know, I love them all. Bobby, particularly, for me, I think. We see his journey. I play him from the age of six up until the age of 144. So you know, that journey, I quite enjoy every night. It's exhausting, but it's incredibly rewarding to play. And yeah, so-- so for me, it's Bobby, I would say.
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: Some of the little ones-- some of the little ones are great, aren't they? I mean, one of my favorites is an Irish maid, who literally has two lines. But there's a whole history behind her. And I love her, yeah she's tiny.
ADRIAN LESTER: But it's a great moment.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: I also like your Greek diner guy. Coming from a family of Greek diner owners. I thought that was very, very good. And you know, each of you has had such an illustrious career, an enviable career.
And Adrian, I was surprised to find out this is your Broadway debut. But I have to congratulate you because you know how to pick them. What are your first impressions of-- of Broadway?
ADRIAN LESTER: Well, I'm getting a sort of reduced Broadway experience because it's Broadway and COVID. So the life and the connection between companies and the people coming to this show and popping around to stage door, and all of that sort of, the social life that goes with it, the camaraderie and everything, is being felt on faxes and texts and emails rather than in person because we can't do that.
But nevertheless, it is-- it's-- it's wonderful to be here. And I can forget I'm in a theater doing a show with two great actors that I admired for years. Don't tell them that. I'm doing this show with them. And then you think you're just in a theater. But when you step out and go, oh, yeah, I'm in New York because you just think that.
I'm the only one, I step out onto the street, and I go, oh, right. Yeah, yellow cabs. This is great. It's-- it's wonderful. It's been great.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: We want to see more of you on Broadway-- each, each of you. At the end of the day, I want to ask each of you this-- what-- what does-- what is at the core? What is this story to you? Because when I was watching, I have been going, well, it's obviously an immigrant story. But it's also a story about money. It's a story about power. So let's go around the table and start with you, Simon, what, at the core, is this story mean to you?
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: I have no idea. And I'm not being evasive. I have no idea. Like you, it changes. Sometimes, it's an immigrant story, sometimes it's a story of a sort of potted history of capitalism. Sometimes it's just a history of greed. Sometimes, it's a history of family fidelity.
I really can't put my finger on it. It's such-- it's the elusive thing. And I think it depends on the person who are watching it, what you take away from it, I think. That's not-- that sounds horribly evasive. But I think I'm being too--
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: No, it's not. And it's honest. Adam, what does it mean for You
ADAM GODLEY: I think, you know, it's changed over time. But I think-- I think part of it is that it tells the story of how the America, that we live in now, came to be sort of modern American. I think, I think that's-- that's a crucial and core part of what this story is.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Sort of the story of American capitalism, really. Yeah?
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: Yeah. You know, how the-- why the country looks like it does, why it functions like it does, both economically and socially. And I think it-- it attempts to have a look at how-- possibly, how we got to that point. How we got to this point.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: And Adrian, for you?
ADRIAN LESTER: I'd agree with both men actually. It is hard to define of a three and 1/2 hours exactly what's being said. But I think what I found fascinating is that when we look at our financial institutions now and our advertising and the way the banks are structured and mortgages and loans and so on, we take that as being that's just the truth, that's just how it is.
But it's nice to go through the play and look at the moments where we could have made another choice, where they could have done something else. But what they decided to do was exploit need. There's a point where Adams character says, if people will buy instinctively, and they'll need banks like they breathe air, which means they'll need banks to survive which means everyone-- everyone will borrow, everyone will buy.
And then Simon says, the poor do not exist. Everyone will buy, discounts, loans, installments. And this is the way we will now do things. Whereas, looking at it from this point of view, well that's just the way the world is. But that was a decision. There was a decision made to make it like that. And I found those moments in the play really exciting to think that someone thought about that, created that. It could have been another way. There is another system. We just don't have it.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Yeah. And finally, gentlemen, because I know you actually have a show tonight, you need-- you need need to go do that too but when this was happening in real time back in 2008, I'm just curious. Were you-- were any of you watching it and watching it unfold? And did you ever think there would be a play about it and that you'd be in it?
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: I was certainly watching-- watching it unfold. I'm a no-- as I said earlier, I'm no expert. But-- and you mentioned the image of the boxes. I remember that very-- very clearly. And there was a famous picture from the London headquarters of Lehman, of people listening to with their backs to the window.
So the photograph was off their backs. And they were being told that their jobs had ended. I remember that very clearly. And that came up in rehearsal actually-- the original rehearsals. And I-- I couldn't follow the-- the details of the financial crash itself. But I remember it very, very clearly.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Did you guys follow it, Adam, Adrian? Or was it sort of just something going on in the background at the time?
ADAM GODLEY: For me, it was really something going on in the back room. But of course, the ripples and the repercussions, you know, still feeling even through what we've all been through in the last 18 months. You know, we didn't realize at that moment how it would change the world.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Yeah.
ADRIAN LESTER: Yeah. I have remember trying to follow it like Simon says. I'm not a financially whiz at all, but trying to follow it, and thinking what does this mean for mortgage? What does this mean for the bank that I'm with? What does this mean for savings?
And so I kind of have my hand on the button thinking, where should I move things. You have, a bit of money that I had made and saved as matter. Didn't want it to disappear. So I remember doing that. And being wary about that. But some-- the complexity of what happened, I couldn't really grasp.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Yeah. It was tough for all of us. And I-- and I cover it. And it was, and of course, it precipitated the Great Recession-- something we still refer to now, you know. It's sort of a marker in our economic history.
Before I let you go, Adrian, you just brought that up you said about your own money. Do you guys invest? Do you-- do you invest in the stock market?
ADRIAN LESTER: I don't, no.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Who said no?
ADRIAN LESTER: Me. I don't invest.
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: No, I don't. Some of my family do. I don't.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Yeah.
ADAM GODLEY: Yeah.
ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: All right. We're going to get you to watch Yahoo Finance more often. And then you'll be able to make your savvy investment decisions. All right. Well, gentlemen thank you so much. It was a real pleasure. Simon Russell Beale, Adam Godley, Adrian Lester continued success to you. Thanks for your time.
ADRIAN LESTER: Thank you.
SIMON RUSSEL BEALE: Thank you very much.
ADAM GODLEY: Thank you, Bye, bye.