'The Knick' Postmortem: Clive Owen on Thackery's Risky Surgery and the Future of the Series

Warning: This post contains spoilers for the “This Is All We Are” episode of The Knick.

Physician, heal thyself. At least that’s what Dr. John Thackery, the drug-addled surgeon at the center of Cinemax’s The Knick, was trying to do in tonight’s Season 2 finale. He insisted on performing surgery on his own intestines without anesthesia (he had cocaine injected into his spine to numb his lower half), only to slip up and cut himself, leaving him on the verge of bleeding to death. It looked like it could be the end for Thackery — and The Knick.

Not so fast, though; this patient may pull through after all. Clive Owen, who stars as Thackery and is also an executive producer on the show, spoke with Yahoo TV about Thackery’s final scene and what it means for the future of the series. Plus, he gives us his take on the meaning behind Thackery’s (maybe) last words, the doctor’s season-long mission to understand drug addiction, President Obama calling The Knick his favorite show of the year — and his own unlikely pick for his favorite TV show.

Let’s start at the end: Did Thackery die on that operating table?
[Laughs.] It looks like it. I have to be honest with you: I haven’t actually seen the finished thing yet, so I’m not quite sure how Steven [Soderbergh]’s put it together. But I certainly remember shooting it.

So what does this mean for the series? Is it up to Cinemax, whether it comes back for a third season?
To be honest with you, I really don’t know. When we originally talked about doing it, it was always going to be a two-season arc of the story. But I do know everyone had a great time, and they are talking about the possibilities of moving it forward. But I have no idea. That’s something Steven is discussing with the writers and with Cinemax.

But you’re open to coming back, if it is renewed?
I had one of the best times I’ve had, yeah, shooting that series. I think it was just brilliantly written and brilliantly directed, so you know… I’m open to anything that’s good writing.

If this is the end for Thackery, I imagine that’s something you and Steven and creators Jack Amiel and Michael Begler talk about in advance, about how you want to wrap things up.
Yeah, for sure. The beauty of doing this show — both times, actually — is that the arc of the ten hours was really carefully plotted through before we even began shooting. And that happened in both series. The writers are so talented, and they’re so quick as well, and they managed to produce ten really fine scripts. It was really just about tweaking as we went, but the arc of the story was completely laid out and very clear before we even turned over.

Do you come in with ideas when the season starts, about where you think Thackery might be headed?
Not so much that, but I am involved. When Steven’s okayed the scripts with the writers, it comes to me, and then I’ll give my notes, my thoughts and feelings. I certainly don’t generate ideas from scratch, but I’ll have something to say about what’s on the page when I get it, yeah. And just sort of put my opinions in. But it’s an opinion on what’s already been written.

Related: ‘The Knick’: Andre Holland on Algernon’s Frustrating Season and that Eye Surgery Scene

Thackery decides to operate on himself, so he’s awake for the whole procedure, which means he gets to have some perhaps final words: “This is it. This is all we are.” What do you think he was saying there? Is he sort of seeing the limits of human endeavor?
One of the things for me about Thackery, and what he’s been doing throughout the whole two seasons, is he’s been on this flight of discovery, and he’s passionate and he cares and he’s crazy volatile, and you’re dealing with life and death, but ultimately it comes down to this. This is everything. This is all we are. We’re flesh and blood, and we’re all the same, and it’s all going to come to this in the end. That’s the realization, you know. He’s one step away from dying.

So why does he insist on operating on himself? Is it just his ego running amok, or is he trying to atone for what happened to Abby, with the anesthesia?
I think there’s a combination of it all, yeah. He’s a very complex character. There’s no question to me that it’s driven by what happens to Abby, and that’s where it comes from. And there’s an element of: He’s hugely arrogant, sometimes misguidedly so, and he thinks he can pull this off. And there’s also, thrown into the mix, a self-destruct in him, and there always has been. He knows deep down the risks he’s taking.

It was heartbreaking to see him lose Abby during that surgery, because it seemed like she was maybe the only person left who really knew John.
Yeah, when we talked about the arc of the ten [episodes], there’s no question that he’s really struggling through a difficult time, and she’s the one sort of light, really. There’s a possibility of hope. There’s suddenly potential. And it’s the first time, really, in both seasons that you see a kind side to him. She brings that out. You see a version of Thackery that we don’t really see, and the potential of it. And then when that’s ripped away, obviously everyone fears the worst. [Laughs.]

Thackery’s quest to understand addiction was a big plot point this season. And it’s a poignant one, because here we are, 115 years later, and we still don’t really know what causes this on a biological level.
I think that’s great: We start there, and at that time, they probably did think it was a question of putting some time in, and you would get to the bottom of that and understand why people do that. And we obviously know now that addiction is one of the most difficult things to treat, and it’s incredibly elusive. And also, there’s a lot of stuff this season about dealing with the brain, and thinking we’d get some clues about how the thing works. And we’re still probably as silly as we were then, really.

If this is the end of the series, it ends on sort of a grim note. The villains get away with it, and the good people are left behind to suffer.
Well, the one thing that The Knick’s always been, one of its strongest things, is that it shows how tough life would’ve been back then. [Laughs.] Because that’s something that separates it from an awful lot of period dramas. It’s one of the things that attracted me to it. It felt kind of visceral, and real. One thing Steven said, and that we always tried to do, is make sure that nobody ever gets nostalgic for the idea of living back then. It was very tough, I think, for most people.

Right, it’s not like Downton Abbey, where people say, “Oh, I’d love to live back then.” I don’t think anyone’s saying, “I wish I lived back in the time of The Knick."
[Laughs.] They’re certainly not saying, "I wish I was ill and was wheeled out into the operating theater back there."

You’ve said you decided to do a TV series because this character was so great. But now we’re into Season 2, and possibly beyond. So what is it about John Thackery that you still wanted to explore in a second and maybe third season?
It’s just the mix of the whole thing, really: It’s a combination of great writing; of working with Soderbergh; of working with, I think, a group of really, really fantastic actors. And you put all of those ingredients together… it’s kind of where you want to be as an actor, you know.

I spoke with your co-star Andre Holland, and he said the surgery scenes are the most nerve-wracking to shoot, that it’s like a theater performance for him. Do you feel the same way? Do those scenes scratch that theater itch for you?
There’s no question, yeah. Because you’ve got the three things going on: You have the technical side of the operation, and making sure you look like you know what you’re doing when it comes to that. You’ve got the dialogue with the other doctors, and the relationships. It’s always fueled with subtext and the dynamics of how they’re all getting on and relating. And then there’s the element of performance to the crowd in the room. And it’s all usually with a hundred-odd extras. There’s all those three things together, so they were certainly the most challenging scenes, I think, yeah.

Did you see that President Obama just said The Knick was his favorite TV show of the year?
He’s a great guy. [Laughs.] He’s got very good taste, he’s very smart, and he’s a great guy.

Do you watch much TV? Did you have a favorite TV show this year?
To be honest with you, I don’t. I watch very, very little TV. I watch film, and I watch sport — football. The only TV that I watch, and I’ve seen every single episode, is Curb Your Enthusiasm. I love it.

Yes! Let’s hope that comes back someday. You could be on it!
I would love that.