‘Good Times’ Boss Defends Animated Reboot, Telling Viewers: “I Understand If This Is Jolting”
Netflix’s Good Times reboot has drawn ire from audiences and national organizations such as the NAACP for its perceived stereotypical depictions of African Americans since its trailer was first released on March 27. That same day, a Change.org petition, which has gathered some 5,000 signatures, was launched calling on viewers to boycott the new show which “promotes violence, culture destruction of the Black community and alcohol abuse,” the creator of the petition wrote.
Showrunner Ranada Shepard understands the knee-jerk reaction.
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“You haven’t seen J.B. [Smoove] and Yvette [Nicole Brown] and Marsai [Martin] and Jay Pharoah and Slink Johnson on couches all across America, which typically happens when you’re rolling out a show. There was no framing that the audience had, it was just: Watch this and form an opinion. And, they watched and they formed an opinion,” Shepard tells THR in the conversation below.
Shepard took over from original showrunner Carl Jones developing the new version of the Norman Lear-produced original CBS family sitcom, which debuted 50 years ago in 1974. The late Lear (who makes a cameo in episode eight) remains an executive producer on the reboot, which dropped all of its 10 episodes on Netflix April 12. In his review, THR‘s Chief TV critic Daniel Fienberg summed up of the series: “Viewers who grew up with a special place in their hearts for Good Times, a series that redefined the parameters of what the Black family could be on TV, will probably struggle to make it through even the first episode. And for good reason,” he wrote. “BUT! Let’s get past the pilot and the title, because if you can do that, the series that Netflix’s Good Times grows into by the end of 10 episodes isn’t nearly so dire and so worthy of instant condemnation.”
Speaking with THR nearly two weeks after viewers have had a chance to watch the whole series, Shepard says, “I was always rooted in [the fact that] I understand if this is jolting. Because what you needed was someone to tell everyone, ‘I know you’re used to the sweet sitcom, but this is not only a reimagination, it’s in a different genre that requires it to be loud and offensive with hard jokes and inappropriate.’ Without that type of framing,” Shepard adds, “you can never blame the audience and I never would.”
Despite social media urgings from Nicole Brown — who leads the voice cast as matriarch Beverly alongside Smoove (Reggie), Pharoah (Junior), Martin (Grey), Johnson (Dalvin) and Rashida “Sheedz” Olayiwola (Lashes by Lisa) — to watch all 10 episodes before forming an opinion, viewership did little to squelch negative reactions to various choices concerning the show’s storytelling. Namely, the use of the N-word and the presentation of Dalvin as a baby drug dealer. Some also questioned the decision-makers of the series — which also counts Seth MacFarlane and Steph Curry among its executive producers.
“Seth MacFarlane never wrote one word of any of these scripts,” says Shepard. “That speaks to educating the audience and, again, this is stuff that we could talk about on couches. The executive producers, Seth MacFarlane, Steph Curry and Norman Lear — they didn’t write.”
Below, Shepard talks with THR about changes she made after being brought onboard for the Good Times reboot, the intentionality behind many of her controversial creative decisions and why, despite the backlash, she wouldn’t do anything differently.
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Going all the way back to the beginning of this series, can you talk about the decision to make it a reboot and not a standalone series without the Good Times IP?
I think the biggest misconception is that that was my decision. This project was actually sold about a year-and-a-half prior to me coming on, and it was at a standstill. Sony asked me to get involved because it was at the stage where it was possibly going to go away, so I had the task of landing the plane. I was able to jump in, clear out what was done, refresh everything and start over. I kept the same characters, with the exception of a ghost that existed in the previous version, and reset them to give them a sort of groundedness, and then started developing the season.
Were you involved at all when Carl Jones, the original showrunner, was a part of this project? [One day after the trailer dropped, Jones said on X, “For the record I was involved with the Good Times animated series in the very VERY beginning but due to creative differences, I had to walk away. So I haven’t even seen one episode or script of this version of the show…”]
We had an overlap for a little bit. But for the most part, the direction that they were going in, they no longer wanted to. So they asked me to come in with the new direction.
Was that new direction to ground the characters? Were there other major differences in direction?
No, it literally was grounding it in the sense that Norman Lear wanted traditional stories, and then to go from a place of traditional stories into the world of animation and comedy, which was great and fun and was in my wheelhouse.
Can you speak more about Norman Lear’s specific notes and working with him?
He was really great. He was so positive and encouraging, and believed that I could get it done. He was blown away by the third episode once we actually got it completed, and got to watch it and sit with his producers and give feedback on how brave he thought that was in a time where Roe v. Wade is overturned and that there was still space to tell stories that some people might think, “are we really doing a period story?”
What people don’t understand about our culture and society is that with the history of Blacks in America, there’s a lot of deep-rooted shame and a lot of things that people tend to think are outdated, really are things we haven’t dealt with because we grew up for generations not being able to talk about things. So maybe I didn’t have that conversation with my mother, but I’m putting it into an art form so that a girl and a mother can decide to do things differently and break generational curses. And he was completely supportive of that.
He was excited to record his episode. We had the best experience with myself, Cree and him on Zoom together while he was in the booth doing his cameo in episode eight [his final role before his death]. I’ll never forget this one time one of my writers wrote a really crass joke and they were like, “Norman wants to talk to you.” And it was like getting called to the principal’s office. He said, “I just want to make sure that they’re a loving family,” because it was something Dalvin said to his dad. And I said, “I understand. I’ll remove that joke. But I do want to have the ability to push the limits,” which he was supportive of as long as they were rooted in love.
To the point of pushing the limits, people had a strong response as soon as the trailer came out. What was your reaction to what Twitter had to say? Was there frustration that people were judging so quickly?
It wasn’t frustration, because I thought on one hand, you haven’t seen J.B. and Yvette and Marsai and Jay Pharoah and Slink Johnson on couches all across America, which typically happens when you’re rolling out a show. There was no framing that the audience had, it was just: Watch this and form an opinion. And they watched and they formed an opinion. I was always rooted in [the fact that] I understand if this is jolting. Because what you needed was someone to tell everyone, “I know you’re used to the sweet sitcom, but this is not only a reimagination, it’s in a different genre that requires it to be loud and offensive and have hard jokes and inappropriate. So your mind is doing a lot of different things.”
People immediately asked, “Where’s Thelma?” “Where’s JJ”? “Okay, they’re not there, and wait, there’s a baby drug dealer. What’s happening?” So I think without that type of framing, you can never blame the audience, and I never would. I was just sitting from the space of, “Just watch the series, please, just give it a chance. Because there’s so much good there.” Even if it’s not for you, I stand 10 toes down that what we did was great work.
Once the series came out, the reception didn’t change all that much.
I beg to differ.
Okay, speak to that.
I think it depends on where you’re looking. I think a lot of things were written from a perspective of already listening to the audience saying that they hated it. I saw a writeup that said the period episode was a sitcom trope. I grew up on sitcoms. I didn’t grow up seeing Black girls get their period, so I’m not sure what that trope is. So that just negates everything to me that’s being said after that.
I don’t want to be defensive, but I want to be clear in that it’s great to hear the feedback. And you can look on my posts today and all throughout the week of people saying, “I was reluctant because of what everyone was saying, but I watched this and it’s really good if you can get into it and really accept what this is,” and “It’s different from the original, but actually it’s a really good show.” Look, there’s some people who it’s not going to be for. But I ask those people, “Do you watch adult animation?” Because I know a lot of people don’t watch adult animation, so if that’s not your genre, this genre is going to be difficult for you. But are they well-written stories that stand in social commentary and each one has a message? Absolutely.
Do you think had Seth MacFarlane not been involved and it was an all-Black production team some of the pushback might’ve been different?
I think a lot of things could be different. I’m not sure. You can’t predict the future. But I will say this, I’ve had a lot of things posed at me in the sense of, “If you were a man, do you think this would be different?” Truthfully, it’s a groundbreaking opportunity for me as a Black woman. White males run adult animation, and to be in this position to be able to tell these kinds of stories? Like I said, it’s groundbreaking and I’m so proud to be here.
So in that position, I also have to question, would these stories be more palatable if you saw what you were used to seeing telling these stories? I’m not really sure. But all I can say is Seth MacFarlane never wrote one word of any of these scripts. That speaks to educating the audience and, again, this is stuff that we could talk about on couches. The executive producers — Seth MacFarlane, Steph Curry and Norman Lear — they didn’t write. The way Hollywood works is that this is sold because they have deals with Sony. Sony has the rights to Norman Lear’s catalog. And when you’re talking about a reimagination, it was actually Steph Curry’s company who came up with the concept to animate this. They brought it to Norman Lear’s company and Norman said, “I’m good friends with Seth. He knows animation. It’d be great to have him in the space to walk it in when we shop it.” And they walked it into Carl Jones and they sold it.
So, it is hard to say. But also, there are two things that are happening. It’s one thing that you think the audience may need, but it’s another thing working within Hollywood and what you need to sell a show. A lot of times things don’t get past, “Oh, that’s a cool idea,” because it doesn’t have the right people attached just to get it greenlit. So I think he’s valuable in this show, and I would never negate any three of those producers’ value when it comes to getting this show made.
What kind of conversations have you had with the cast since the series has come out?
The best conversation was with Slink Johnson. He was like, “Oh, please, I played Black Jesus, the world came for me. This is nothing.” But also, he has very clear conversations with this audience in that, “Who’s going to come pay my bills?” “Who’s going to give me another offer,” “Who’s going to take care of my kids?” And then there’s a bit of, “No, we get it, but we’re just saying.”
But the great thing is that we had a screening and all of us were there to talk, except for Slink, about how impactful and important these stories are to tell. Jay Pharoah being a kid who the school system wanted to tell his mother that he needed meds to calm down and focus. We dealt with that in episode two with Junior. J.B. Smoove talking about his experiences growing up in Mount Vernon projects, some of it was good and some of it wasn’t. These are all real lived experiences that he can then bring to that character and understand that these are some of the things that still exist in society. We have hit so many monumental moments as a people, but there still exists a community of people who are underserved and undervalued and being ignored, and who don’t have the resources. And, how great to call attention to things that still need to be done?
John Amos and BernNadette Stanis spoke to THR after the trailer was released. Have you had any more conversations with them since the series debut?
No, absolutely not. But I commented on the post. We had such a good time when she recorded as Peaches. We were all excited to be in there with her as well as JJ [Jimmie] Walker, and I’m so honored to have them as a part of this series.
You mentioned the drug-dealing baby, Davin, earlier. Can you talk about that choice? Was there a hesitation?
I inherited these characters, and I could have done away with Dalvin just the way that I did away with another character. But there’s a moment to have a conversation here as a Black mom in the United States. I have three Black boys, including my bonus son, and I remember being stopped in grocery stores where white women told me how beautiful my babies were and their little curly afros. And we don’t know when they stop being those cute babies in society and they start to be a threat. Nobody ever tells us. And it’s our worst nightmare that we don’t get the memo, and suddenly you get a call that your child was a threat to someone. So I thought this is interesting to explore in keeping him a baby. Even deeper than that, this baby is the last one born into this generational trauma and decides, like most babies do, they’re going to go a little rogue. And we all know a cousin, uncle or brother who has decided to go a different way than what the family norm is. The father will say, “Get him out my house. He’s not following my rules.” And the mother always tells you, “But that’s my baby.”
Also, there’s a part of society that glorifies the Italian mob, narcos in the cartel, white collar/Wall Street criminals. But suddenly, when it’s our Black men, it’s so problematic and they’re demeaned in such a way as if that’s still not somebody’s baby. George Floyd laid on that ground and called out “Mama.” That’s still somebody’s baby. Society detaches that from our men, and it’s so sickening to me. So when I did that deep dive into what a Black male baby means to a family and to society, I thought, “Here’s a great way to tell some stories.” Because, had I made Junior the drug dealer, it would’ve fit status quo for so many people. But the fact that I constantly would tell the animators, “Every chance you can, change his diaper, nuzzle his neck, put him on a changing table, have him in a carrier in a stroller,” it was to remind people that he’s a baby. So when he does all these bad things, I want you to struggle with who he is the same way you struggle with the Italian mobster. I understand how jolting it is for people to see it right away, but just give it a second and look at the stories and you’ll understand.
Some people were also critical of the use of the N-word. What was the thinking there?
It was written in the script maybe twice. So anytime you heard it throughout the series, that was an actor’s ad-lib. It was what felt natural to them in that moment, so that’s what stuck in there and I respected the choice.
Watching the series yourself now amid the audience reaction, is there anything you would’ve done differently?
No. I’m so glad about getting the reaction once it was done. I spent two-and-a-half years with this project, and I totally believed in it and loved it, and could talk to you about any aspect of this show and let you know that it was intentional. Everything was so intentional with the exception of the ad libs. Anything that I could change wouldn’t be within what I did, it would be that I would’ve had a ginormous marketing budget and the cast and I would’ve gone all around the world — because this is a global show. I would have talked to the world about this show and gotten the world ready for this show. And if I had the power of God, Norman Lear would still be alive to be here with us.
How do you feel this show fits into the legacy of Good Times?
I think it has a special place in the sense where we kind of left Good Times where it was. And you can leave Good Times where it was, that’s the beauty of it. I found with a lot of our supporting cast and sometimes with our audience — we forget, because we grew up on it — there are some people who have no recollection and no idea what Good Times is. So it becomes a modern-day take that is there for enjoyment. When I would watch the original series, it was clear to me what the family was up against and what we as Black people were up against. And now as I watch the show and continue to take it in as a fan, I think we did really good with this social commentary when we’re talking about the commodity of Black artists.
Who’s talking to Black boys about being Black, broke and an artist, and how you’re more valued dead? Who’s talking to Black boys about the violence? I think those types of messages — that, unfortunately, in all of the chaos and confusion over the trailer, are being missed — are so important. And if this lives so that maybe you’re not watching it today, but five years later, you pick it up and you watch it. Look, I wasn’t even alive when Good Times was out. I was born the year it ended. But I watched that show all throughout my life and it still resonated. And I think that’s the gift of it, it can continue to resonate for the future.
Good Times is now streaming on Netflix.
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