Ghosts’ Brandon Scott Jones Talks Isaac vs. Hamilton Feud Reveal: ‘It’s Tragic in the Funniest Way’
Warning: The following contains spoilers for Thursday’s Ghosts. Proceed at your own risk!
It was all because of a ruffle, can you believe it?
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This week’s Ghosts flashbacks revealed that Isaac’s hatred of Alexander Hamilton (guest star Nat Faxon) stems from the fact that the Founding Father stole Isaac’s shirt ruffle ahead of a very important dinner party at John Jay’s house. And when Isaac couldn’t let the slight go and accidentally set the first draft of the Declaration of Independence on fire, he lost his chance to be a party of history and was kicked out of the room — but the Founding Fathers did use what Isaac said about “the pursuit of happiness” in the final draft.
“The idea that [the feud is] over something so frilly, that the actual object is so frilly, is so funny,” Brandon Scott Jones, who plays Isaac, tells TVLine. “And then the idea of him wearing the loaner ruffle, trying to be present at the signing of the Declaration of Independence, the thing that he wants, and he’s unable to let this other thing go… It’s tragic in the funniest way.”
Below, Jones talks about why Hamilton has it out for Isaac, and whether Isaac will now finally let go of his hatred for the famous historical figure.
TVLINE | Isaac’s feud with Hamilton has been much hyped for four seasons now. How did the reality line up for you?
The specifics were a surprise, but I always felt, in my gut somewhere, that this rivalry was either, a) lopsided, so much so that, like, this guy never gave him the time of day, or it was over something so petty, and it just sort of spun out of control. So when I got the script, you see the title [“Alexander Hamilton and the Ruffle Kerfuffle”] even, you’re like, “Oh, OK, I can see where this is going,” and so, it felt like, “OK, yes, this feels very, very right for him to have this type of reaction over something so small.” It’s almost a little, like, Curb Your Enthusiasm-y, you know what I mean?
TVLINE | It was so very Isaac.
[Laughs] I know, right? The fact that, like, this thing that he has held onto for so long, of course, it’s just over the dumbest thing. I feel like this is the first chapter in a lot of other chapters where Isaac is interacting with Hamilton, and Hamilton’s, really, just, like, dismissing him in every single way. There’s something so funny about that.
TVLINE | Isaac hates Hamilton because he stole his shirt ruffle, but what is Hamilton’s beef with Isaac? Why did he even steal in the first place?
Exactly! That’s one of the unanswered questions that we have to continue to think about. I have this theory, and this is just me, but in order to answer that question, I had made the decision, as an actor, [that] Isaac has proven himself to be a little bit of an unreliable narrator and a little bit of a history’s revisionist type of guy. So in the virtue of him telling the story [in a way] where he still does look bad, I wonder if he’s sort of embellished some parts to sort of soften the blow of how he really acted during that experience. Meaning I could see a world both where maybe Hamilton really didn’t steal his ruffle, and this is all from Isaac’s just, like, undoing, but as he’s telling the story, he’s still unwilling to let that go. That’s just something that I thought. The reason I wanted to bring that up is just because you asked a really great question, which is what is Hamilton’s beef with Isaac, and I think maybe he just stole his ruffle in the beginning, or [Hamilton] just was annoyed at the way [Isaac] behaved during the Declaration of Independence.
TVLINE | How was it working with Nat as Hamilton? Did you know each other before this, or was this your first introduction?
This was my first introduction to him. When it was announced that he was playing the character, the number of people that texted me and were like, “He’s the best,” because I had never met him before, and obviously, I was a fan of his work, and he’s great on Loot, and he’s an Oscar winner, for crying out loud. Like, amazing writer and actor. But the number of people that texted me to be like, “Oh, you’re going to love him. He’s the best. He’s so great.” I was like, “Oh, wow, this guy has a huge reputation to live up to,” and then, suddenly, he shows up and exceeds all of those expectations. He was the best and so down to play, so down to have fun, so down to just, like, really make this as juicy as we wanted to make it. He’s so funny. It was so great. He’s such a legendary character within the show. I couldn’t think of a better person to bring him to life.
TVLINE | They peppered in several references to the Hamilton musical in this episode. Do you have a favorite shoutout?
Oh, I do like that Schuyler Sisters joke. That’s a fun one. I do like [that] the whole episode, essentially, is, like, him being in the room where it didn’t happen, you know what I mean? [Laughs] That would be the better title for Isaac’s memoir: In the Room Where It Didn’t Happen.
TVLINE | Can we talk about the curly hair and the over-the-top shirt ruffle? What went through your head when you saw yourself in the mirror after that transformation?
[Laughs] I know, I look like I should be on a playing card [Laughs]. It was great. The shirt ruffle was fun, because, a) I don’t get too many fittings on this show, and this one felt like a real collaborative effort. Our costume design department is absolutely amazing, and we had a couple fittings just for the ruffle, because we wanted to get it to be the right [size] where I could still play, but it still felt cumbersome. And then it also had its own personality. I remember we added a little bit of wiring to it, so that if I tried to push it down, it would pop back up, which was really, really, really fun.
And then the curly hair was a decision I made about the show a couple seasons ago in one of Isaac’s first flashbacks. I just felt that Isaac is a guy who didn’t fully live as who he was when he was alive, and that as he tried desperately to be more part of the in crowd, he changed his appearance. And so, the concept that he maybe died with a hairstyle that he didn’t love, that wasn’t who he was, I thought was really, really interesting. Our hair department was so down, and our showrunners were so down to let that be a part of him. And so, the combination of the shirt ruffle and the curls, there was a lot of frills going on. [Laughs]
TVLINE | I felt like they deserved their own credit in the billing.
I know. I did watch the episode, and I was like, “I look quite large.” [Laughs] It’s an imposing figure there, but silly figure, and not, necessarily, threateningly imposing.
TVLINE | After this episode, is Isaac able to put this beef with Hamilton behind him finally and move on? Or is he still making some snide remarks here and there about him?
I don’t know if he brings it up against this season, but I don’t think it’s done. I think there’s still more to unpack and unwind and explore with the Hamilton beef, and I wonder how that could come about. … But I do know that his book is coming out, where he’s a vampire. So who knows what he might just do in that book to Hamilton that’ll just re-spark the feud.
TVLINE | I hope they actually publish that as a tie-in to the show. I would love to read that.
Wouldn’t that be great? Without giving anything anyway, I have seen a dust jacket to that book. I was like, “Oh, I’d read that!”
Ghosts fans, what did you think of the Isaac vs. Hamilton backstory? Hit the comments!
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